Page 39 - TA Magazine Winter 2022

GOING THERE T OGE THER

KATIE: That predated the whole “body after baby” thing, so I KATIE: Very. KATIE: I remember you said to me, “Running has saved my KATIE: And to wake up in the morning and not feel bad. I think
didn’t really feel that kind of pressure. I think if I did, it was more life.” I think that was an improvement because you were at about that a lot. Even though I’m almost 65 and I feel creekier
self-imposed. I just got more forgiving of myself, the older I got. CARRIE: No fault of your own, but there was an incident, least eating. You know, I remember bringing a carrot cake to than I used to, I feel grateful for feeling good and being well.
which you mention in the book, when I was in middle a cross-country meet and you ate a piece. I felt like that was a
CARRIE: You write about how Granny, a.k.a. your mom, might school and a guest speaker came to the assembly to give better alternative to starving yourself. But I think you still have I had a friend who died of ALS, and sometimes I just think the
have projected her own bodily insecurities onto you, a phrase you a presentation about how women’s bodies are exploited and this rigidity about working out that I would love you to work simple act of walking to the kitchen and making a cup of coffee
call “intergenerational body shaming,” which I came up with, by sexualized in media and advertising. on, so you wouldn’t feel like the sky will come falling down if is a gift. As corny as that sounds.
the way. Do you think there were ways in which you unintentional- you don’t exercise one day.
ly did that with Ellie and me? Not knowing I was in the audience, the presenter pulled up Sometimes you have to say, “I am so lucky that I can do these
that promotional picture of you for the CBS Evening News that CARRIE: I mean, it does give me peace of mind, I guess. things” because you take your health for granted. And it’s such
KATIE: Oh, totally, I’m sure. I think that you absorb the par- had been heavily photoshopped to make you look thinner. But the guilt I feel when I don’t is intense, which is something a privilege, honestly. I’ve learned that through losing my hus-
enting style of your parent… And then she juxtaposed it with the original. How did I’m working on. What advice would you give to parents band and my sister and my friends, and seeing them feel terrible
you react to me telling you about this? going through something similar with their kids? for months on end. There’s nothing worse. Everyone says this,
I really just wanted you all to be healthy, and I remember when but it’s true: if you don’t have your health, you have nothing.
you were a little girl, seven or eight years old, you had a temper KATIE: I felt bad for you because I didn’t want to embarrass KATIE: It can be a tricky balance to encourage kids to be
tantrum in a dressing room at that store Marsha D.D. You you. But at the same time, I thought it was a good example of how healthy and make good choices with their food, but not make CARRIE: Do you think you’ll ever be in a place where you
were so upset because you felt like you were fat. f*cked up that is. So, I could understand why she used it. them feel guilty. I guess probably, just from this conversation, feel body neutral on a personal level?
not ascribing adjectives like “good” and “bad” to food, and
I think if I pressured you at all or if I tried to have you eat CARRIE: I dealt with anorexia as a seventh grader and having value judgments so much on them. All while really try- KATIE: Well, I feel pretty body neutral now. My body has
healthy, it was because I felt like it bothered you. then again in high school, when it kind of morphed ing to introduce healthy eating. changed as I’ve gotten older. You know, I look at pictures of
into orthorexia (an obsession with eating only healthy foods myself and say, “Oh yeah, that was when I had a waist.” I
22 CARRIE: What do you mean by “eat healthy”? and constantly exercising) which I think, as a side note, CARRIE: Well, how do you define “healthy eating”? make a joke at the end of my book that my friend Carol told 22
Y ANDERSON WINTER 20 CARRIE: Yeah, but I think to your point earli- ily therapy about it. You would only eat those placing moral value judgments on food, that’s when you set up CARRIE: John! No!!! Y ANDERSON WINTER 20
me: “We’ve officially entered our caftan years.” And, you
To me, that would mean listening to internal cues about
is extremely widespread within “wellness”
know, part of it is being married to John. I feel like he accepts
KATIE: Well, maybe not over-eat? To eat healthy food and
KATIE: And enjoying food, I think. I think food should be en-
that make sense?
KATIE: That was incredibly stressful. Really,
me for posting something this morning where he said I looked
36 not too much junk because you seemed troubled by it. Does culture these days. hunger and maybe eating more slowly. me and loves me, no matter what. Although he did chastise 37
really, really bad and he couldn’t believe I posted it.
really, really upsetting. And we went to fam-
joyed and should be considered fuel. But I think once you start
low-calorie muffin tops. What do they call them?
this very strange relationship.
er about seeing certain foods as “good” and
other foods as “bad”— when you ascribe mo-
than it is helpful. But, I mean, we all do that.
to nutritious food. But for so many people, that’s
KATIE: Then you’d eat a piece of cheese for
C rality to foods, it can become more f*cked up CARRIE: VitaTops. CARRIE: Obviously, we’re so fortunate to have access KATIE: Whatever. C
obviously not the case, so I think when we start ascribing
CARRIE: Obviously, “wellness” can be a loaded, often con-
TRA KATIE: Yeah, we do. lunch. It was really difficult--both periods of it. moral values to foods, we start to do that to the people sumerist term. But what does wellness actually mean to you? TRA
eating them--those who don’t have regular
CARRIE: And sometimes still, like when we CARRIE: Was it that you felt powerless? access to nutritious foods. KATIE: I think wellness should mean feeling good and prac-
go out to dinner and you “don’t want us to ticing habits that make you feel good. And in terms of food,
spoil our appetites,” there’s a level of anxiety KATIE: I remember going on vacation to Bra- KATIE: Yes. And there’s still so much external pressure on thinking of food as fuel and not as an enemy, but also as some-
I can see on your face when the bread zil, which was a very stressful time because what constitutes a “good” body. That’s why I think the idea of thing that can be enjoyed.
basket comes. Or there’s this look if I serve Ellie was writing her college applications and body neutrality is so good.
myself one too many helpings. you weren’t eating. CARRIE: What makes you feel strong?
CARRIE: I think people have every right to embrace body
KATIE: I think I still associate overeating with CARRIE: Then I went through it again, positivity, but on a personal level, I’m more drawn to KATIE: Being smart.
a sense of shame. So, I’m sure I project that onto you guys at when I was in high school. this idea of body neutrality. I hope one day I’ll be able to get
times, which isn’t healthy at all. After college I would try to to a place where if I feel good, that’s all that matters. CARRIE: And what makes you feel nourished, however
eat 800 calories a day some days. I would eat, like, a coffee KATIE: You were obsessed with food. I think you had cheese- you want to interpret that?
yogurt, an apple, and a chicken breast. That’s all I would eat. burgers as your screensaver. I want us to start thinking of our bodies as our “earth suits.”
I like that idea because we forget we’re so lucky to KATIE: The love of my family.
I would jump rope in one of those plastic sweat suits that CARRIE: That kind of food obsession is common for people have our health and mobility.
make you sweat a lot. I remember once saying to my older depriving themselves. I was vicariously eating through KATIE COURIC is an award-winning journalist and seasoned
sister Emily, “Look! I think I’ve lost seven pounds!” And she TV shows like “Diners, Drive-Ins and Dives” or “Man vs. Food.” You talk about this in your book when writing about TV personality whose decades-spanning career is nothing
said, “Keep going.” Then it became a kind of orthorexia where I would eat the my dad and Aunt Emily’s battles with cancer—battles they short of iconic. Her memoir, Going There, details her person-
same thing every day and I would never eat bread. both ultimately lost. We forget that being able to al and professional journey, and is now available where all
CARRIE: That is pretty f*cked up. That was also when I started to do cross-country and track. simply move is an amazing thing. books are sold.